SYNDICATED INTERVIEW: THE NATIONAL THEATRE’S DEAR ENGLAND

Q: How challenging is it to play such well-known characters who are so prevalent in the media?

Josh Barrow (Jordan Pickford): “You don’t get much in terms of characterisation when they’re on the pitch and in the post-match interviews, so you have to go digging for scenes like in the locker room when it’s just them. You have to make your choices with the characterisation and that’s when you get to play around a little bit.”

Gwilym Lee (Gareth Southgate): “I think we benefited during Southgate’s tenure from them opening up to the England fans with social media – for instance, the YouTube videos that go behind the scenes at St George’s Park. They are really illuminating because when you watch them do post-match interviews, they present a version of themselves which is quite considered for the media, whereas when you see them in those videos when they’re with the inflatables in the swimming pool or just messing around, that’s when you see them kind of free and without constraints.”

Q: Gwilym, while you’re not a caricature of Gareth Southgate, how much study did you do to create such a convincing performance?

Gwilym Lee (GS): “You start with the outside in when you’re working with a real person, which is kind of the opposite way around to how I’d usually approach a character. The trick is to find the ‘why’s’ – constantly ask that question - the ticks and the twitches and the mannerisms – I wonder why he moves like and what is it about his character that makes him move like that? 

We’re not impersonators, we’re actors and the aim of an actor is hopefully to find the humanity of a character and also to find yourself in a character. This is very much my version of Gareth.”

Q: The staging is so impressive, featuring a huge round stage with three revolving segments. How much of a challenge is that when you’re performing?

Josh Barrow (JP): “We had a whole portion of the rehearsals to learn how to use the revolve, as it’s three tiers - so one goes this way, the other goes this way, the other goes that way. We have to really practice on how to walk on it.”

Q: Jude, how does it feel knowing you’re going to be playing Marcus Rashford a stone’s throw from Old Trafford?

Jude Carmichael (MR): “When my agent called me to say I’d got the job, it was like the fear came through. I was thinking ‘when we go to Manchester, everyone’s gonna be like ‘Go on then!’”

Gwilym Lee (GS): “When you get closer to the weekend, you start to get some football crowds in and it’s really fun – you have people who react when the players come out and Leicester City is mentioned or Manchester City etc and they go yay or boo and it’s really fun.”

Josh Barrow (JP): “We feed off it. When you go to the theatre, you sit down, you watch the show, you applaud the actors etc - but I think with this, it almost demands participation. There’s laughs and cheers even boos but then it culminates in this a massive party at the end with ‘Sweet Caroline’ and I think the more a crowd lean into that and the more a crowd really give themselves over to you, the more fun it is. When we do get some football fans in an audience, that end moment is just wild, almost like a rock concert.”

Gwilym Lee (GS): “Some people come not knowing anything about football and it resonates on a different level, and then there’s the polar opposite – people who come expecting it to be a football play, which it is, but then it’s also kind of a Trojan horse, it’s about so much more. I think the idea of bringing in new audiences is a real bonus.”

Q: This play feels so special because while we know the outcome, the audience still watch with a sense of hope, thinking ‘maybe, just maybe’. Does that translate to you all on stage?

Josh Barrow (JP): “You clock audience members during some of the penalties – and even though everybody knows how it goes, as it was such a big moment - everyone is sat watching gripped and is so engaged. It’s just perfect.”

Jude Carmichael (MR): “You kind of get swept up in it. While you know the outcome, obviously, you know what it means to be a fan watching and then even the aftermath.  Whether that be good or bad, you can’t help but get caught up in it.”

Q: Have any of you performed at the Lowry before?

Gwilym Lee (GS): “I was part of a tour years ago where we did King Lear up there with Derek Jacobi. I’m looking forward to going back, I love it! It’s a beautiful theatre and a perfect match to the Olivier Theatre at the National, it’s a very similar kind of space. It’s a great city and it’s going to be fun taking it to a new audience up there and seeing how they’ll respond to it.”

Q: There are so many themes in this play - what do you want audiences to take away from it?

Gwilym Lee (GS): “It was very interesting watching Gareth Southgate’s lecture recently and it feels like everything that was touched upon in that lecture is the heart of this play. It’s about resilience, belief and giving that resilience and belief to people.”

Liz White (Dr PG): “Masculinity is an interesting part of it, too. I’ve really enjoyed researching Pippa because I get to listen to all her strategies and her approaches for a better, calmer life and one that’s filled with deeper joy and deeper loss as well. She talks about how to lose. This sometimes gets a laugh and I can imagine that sounds quite defeatist but actually, what she’s just saying is, you can look at it in a very reflective way and let that feed the way you approach your next battle or your next match. I feel kind of infused by her lessons and I hope people watching it might look at the way they approach things in a more whole, holistic way.”

Gwilym Lee (GS): “I think one of my favourite things of Pippa’s is the idea of winning deep and winning shallow and there’s a difference to just winning at all costs. It’s like winning with integrity and winning with depth.”

Liz White (DR PG): “I feel like that means that actually, if you got out there and played with integrity after all your prep and put the effort in, regardless of the outcome, you’ve won.”

Q: Sport and theatre have many parallels, in terms of the shared experience – this is something the play explores so well, isn’t it?

Gwilym Lee (GS): “We need these national moments of togetherness because when have them, you realise how brilliant this country is and how great the people in it are and it’s a divided world at the moment, even at times a divided society. When Gareth wrote that Dear England letter, it was a galvanizing moment, encouraging people to come together. There’s something about this country and when we do come together, it’s brilliant and has power and strength and it can be glorious. I think that’s why this play has such power because it taps into that collective consciousness and hopefully that’s what audiences take away from it. There’s hope, there’s joy, there’s power in being together.”

Liz White (Dr PG): “On a very base level, all of those things say you’re not alone. Someone else is there having the same experience as you, it’s so powerful.”

Gwilym Lee (GS): “There are a lot of parallels, sport is about performance, we’re dealing with fear. I was scared about taking on this job, I read the script and thought ‘yes, you’ve got to take on your fears and go for it’. Put yourself in the uncomfortable position and see what happens!”

Dear England opens at Lowry on Thursday 29th May and runs until Sunday 29th June tickets and further information are available here.